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Eugene... moving forward

Discussion in 'Ep. 716 - The First Day of the Rest of Your Life' started by carolsubmissive, Apr 5, 2017.

  1. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    True, but that was basically during a time of war. Negan was about to enter the safe zone and kill some or even all of them [by his own declaration]. And Eugene, by all appearances at the time as per ASZ's perspective, was with Negan. He was a necessary casualty of war. If they are unwilling to go forward with a plan that involves a likely loss of one of their own lives, especially when that person has semi-defected, then they've already lost the war.

    During peacetime, or at least during less immediate engagement of threat, I think they would all sit down and understand Eugene's position, and accept him back. But not with impunity, perhaps.
     
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  2. Jen7

    Jen7 Well-Known Member

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    My favorite interpretation of the Eug.
     
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  3. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    i repeat, he was willing to betray them. they were willing to blow him up. it kind of evens out.

    he understood why abe beat him unconscious when he confessed he had no solution to the plague, and he didn't hold a grudge over that. he knows how wrong he is being this time, too.

    if anything, the realization that people who love him are willing to blow him up will let him know how powerful his family still is, and ultimately that equals safety.
     
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  4. Spidey

    Spidey Active Member

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    It was kill or be killed, did Rick have a choice?
     
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  5. NoMora

    NoMora Active Member

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    If Eugene has really and fully switched sides and does not have a secret plan to help Rick & Co from the inside, it would be very irresponsible to integrate him back into the group.
    Aside from the fact that his sudden turn is implausible characterwise (being a coward and pretending to be loyal to Negan is one thing. Helping Negan actively on free will because of gaining an advantage over others is another), Rick and his group would have to expect Eugene to switch sides every time there is someone who he considers to be the stronger one.
    There would be no way to ever trust him again.

    This is actually incompatible with Eugene's character.

    I still hope that there is much more behind it, alas it doesn't look like it at the moment.
     
  6. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    well, only if that 'stronger one' just happens to kidnap Eugene by force and take them to their lair, giving him a choice of obedience or misery lol. Which is what actually happened. I like how you keep leaving out that his 'sudden implausible turn' actually required him being taken away by force and held captive both physically and by intimidation though. ;)

    This is totally compatible with Eugene's character. Keeping himself alive as per the situation at hand. As for his helping Negan, you can also say that his desire to be the first one to try to communicate with Rick et al as they approach the safe zone is his way of also trying to help and protect ASZ. And Rick.

    You yourself state that he thinks Negan is the 'stronger one', so that means he must think Negan would win in a battle. So if he was really helping Negan, he would have just let them have a battle lol. The fact that he wanted to smooth things over, and try to talk to Rick would really be to help Rick then. Since Negan is seen as the 'stronger one' already.

    This is just classic Eugene. And he also appears to be thinking of others this time, instead of just himself.
     
  7. westwingnut

    westwingnut Well-Known Member

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    I was planning to post something serious, but given where this thread is going, I'll post this instead:

    I think Eugene has a secret plan to fight inflation.
     
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  8. NoMora

    NoMora Active Member

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    And I think it's funny that you keep insisting on it ;)
    We've already had this debate. Do you want to go over it again?
    Actually, Eugene regarding Negan as the stronger one was the idea of some others when saying that Negan is now the one to protect Eugene from the dangerous world outside. And I referred to it.
    And to the fact that he deliberately helps Negan, which is still different from just pretending to be loyal.

    It's irrelevant that he was kidnapped because once he saw that being Negan's bitch would keep him save (in his mind) he (assumingly or seemingly...) switched sides.
    What you say would mean that he is only keeping his head down and pretending in order to survive.
    What he really does is much more than that and it's the opposite - he (obviously or assumingly or just seemingly...) wants to "be Negan" and supports him.
    That's not just trying to survive but being on Negan's side
    IF he is.

    And whether or not having been kidnapped, if that's the case and he is on Negan's side because he has authority now and because Negan is his new protector (as suggested by others), he would do it again when the next one arrives and offers Eugene whatever he desires, may it be protection, authority, music or his favourite meal...

    And what is so honourable about trying to talk Rick out of the fight and to surrender?
    Nothing. It's the least he could do if he still has some feelings for his former friends. At the same time, by stepping up, presenting himself as a perfect target but still trying to make Rick comply, he humiliated Rick and proved that Alaxandria was completely inferior. He showed where he stands now (IF...), in front of everyone.
    Had he succeeded he woud have been the "hero" of the day for the Saviors by bringing Rick to his knees.
    The fact that he didn't want anyone to die doesn't make him a good guy, especially not since he probably knew that Negan had planned to kill at least one person.

    All that in case that he has really switched sides and is not just pretending, of course.
     
  9. DeeLaurean

    DeeLaurean Well-Known Member

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    Destroy all foot pumps , bicycle pumps, compressors and pursed lips !


    Sent from my iPhone using Little or no insight.
     
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  10. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    Followed by about 600 words of text.




    [​IMG]


    After he was forced into the choice of being cooperative with Negan, or misery. Which fits exactly with Eugene's self preservation.


    Willis, grab your hat! As explained above, it shows he's still trying to help Rick, instead of letting Negan win in battle. Actively trying to avoid a battle in which he felt Rick's side would lose, and likely suffer much loss of life, is known as a good thing. ;)


    Uhhh, the fact that he didn't want anyone to die is a good thing. As for the second part, remember, Assumption will make an ass out of you and Umption.

    As a wise man who happened to hate electricity once said, "Ergo, a falsis principiis proficisci". which means, "If your arguing upon quick sand, you are likely to sandblast your balls"
     
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  11. NoMora

    NoMora Active Member

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    Sorry, I'm not on Twitter here.

    You are entitled to your own opinion.

    Well, you would understand much better if you didn't ignore the rest ;)

    I had no idea that assumption is not allowed on a discussion forum about a fictional TV show... Hmmm.....
    Enjoying yourself? ;)

    Oh, we're at quoting, Good, I have two:

    "You can tell if someone is about social intercourse or just about browbeating somebody with their opinion. It's no fun arguing with a closed-minded person.
    -John Schneider


    And another wise man said once upon a time, in a land far, far away:

    Like the Earth, the Web is a less appealing place than it used to be. If I want attitude and arguing and meanness and profanity and wrong information screamed at me as gospel, I'll get in a time machine and spend Christmas with my family in 1977.
    -J. R. Moehringer



    How old did you say you are ...?

    You seem to have a thing for me.
     
  12. bassetluv

    bassetluv Active Member

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    Ahhhh....less responsible than Rick & Co. trusting Dwight when he showed up as a Negan defector? Stranger things have happened, kids...

    "Sure, we believe you....let's go with your plan and see what happens next."
     
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  13. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    Why are you doing this to poor Umption?? He's going to end up having to change his name to Scrumptious and become the manager of a Cinnabon in Omaha!

    Well, I would have never known. Thanks. :)


    Oh, I don't think you should be that hard on yourself. You are being close minded and stubborn yes, but no reason for such verbal self mutilation. You have good qualities too.

    I'd say this one fits better:

    [this one comes from old-timey radio, I have an app for it on my smart toaster]:

    "If you argue with a naked pigeon, he will distract your train of thought with his boner. Unless he can't get the Mets out of his head, then he'll use his moobs".
    --AC/DC


    Next week I turn 107. I think. I lost track during the depression, after discovering Morphine Cough Syrup.

    Hmmm, interesting, my things tend to run off on their own while I sleep. Can you describe it? I'll let you know if its mine. If its a GE product, I was probably just renting it
     
  14. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    Precisely. One of those stranger things would be Rick and Co. trusting Merle after he kidnapped Maggie and Glenn, and attempted to kill Glenn by walker. Even entrusting him with an important task [or one they thought was important, at the time], which could have really led to disaster if he f*cked it up. Michonne forgave Rick after Rick hatched a plan to turn her over to the Governor where she would be killed and/or tortured. This is survival in the ZA.

    Eugene hasn't done anything irredeemable. He got kidnapped and forced into a new situation, and while there...surprise surprise...he resorted to good old Eugene self preservation. And even Risked his own skin to try and help Sasha. Then volunteered to step up and talk to Rick, in a hope of avoiding a battle he felt Rick would lose. He's still ok.

    The person I can't forgive is Tobin, for keeping up his comb-over, even during War.
     
  15. NoMora

    NoMora Active Member

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    If they really trust Dwight. I wouldn't. Yet he seems to be genuinely interested in helping them at least for now. Who knows what he would be up to after Negan's death?
    He might as well switch sides again.
     
  16. westwingnut

    westwingnut Well-Known Member

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    An assumption is still an umption.
     
  17. NoMora

    NoMora Active Member

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    I agree.
    Plus, when he told Rick to give up he obviously thought that Rick and his group might hesitate to kill him, which contributes to Eugene's new sense of power over others. If he is really the coward that he suddenly seems to be again, despite his development in earlier epsiodes, he wouldn't have presented himself as a target for one of Rick's people.
    He obviously was confident enough to assume that Rick wouldn't let that happen.
    Just another try to manipulate them into submission and at the same time enjoyment of his new status as someone who has power over others, and in this case, even over his friends (if he hasn't got a different plan...).

    He humiliated Rick on so many levels.
    And Negan realised it and confirmed it when he told Rick that he and his people were animals and not even stopping at "one of them".

    By the way, Negan mentioning this seemed to me that he still regarded Eugene as one of the enemy. This should have given Eugene a hint...
     
  18. bluesfan

    bluesfan Active Member

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    Consider this: only Eugene has the most accurate head count of Saviors, workers and complete layout of the main Sanctuary. He also may also have heard of other groups in allegance with Negan.

    Eugene is doing what he has to do to stay alive. He knows Rick's group is where he wants to be. Eugene will make his calculated play before mid season and give Rick the best chance to win. I don't know if he will survive.
     
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